Curse

Kamatsu · Jun 15, 2006, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Hi,

Yes.. I seem to have extreme bad luck and timing. Not only does all my bills arrive now.. my comp is dying (see other thread).. and now it looks like my ~7 y/o monitor is finally starting to pack it in for good. Oh joy!

My monitor has just recently developed a "dark" spotch on the screen - it's very noticable.. it's a dark region where everything is darker than the rest of the monitor. Wish I had a digital camera to illustrate what it looks like.. I can still see through it.. it's just annoying for now.. but since it's just developed.. my guess is this monitor won't last very much longer.

So time to balance the budget again and try and get a decent monitor as well as everything else. So thought i'd pop a few options down and see what advice can be given.

This is for gaming - so when I purchase I'm looking for something with decent refresh and such that can handle games (like GW, HL 2, NWN, Oblivion, etc) well.

Note also I'm looking for 19" in CRT preferably, but will take 17" if they are superior to all the 19" options.

CRT

MITSUBISHI 19" DV998FD DIAMOND DIGITAL Flat Monitor
MITSUBISHI 19" DV998FDB DIAMOND DIGITAL Flat Monitor
ACER AC713 17" CRT MONITOR BLACK
HP S7540 17" CRT VALUE MONITOR
HP V7650 17" CRT CORPORATE MONITOR
ThinkVision C170 Black 17" CRT
ThinkVision C190 19" CRT Monitor
PHILIPS 17" 107S66/75 REAL FLAT BLK
ViewSonic 19" (18"VIEWABLE) PERFECT FLAT CRT/ 1792x1344 @ 62Hz
ViewSonic 19INCH PERFECT FLAT/ 0.25MM / 2048x1536 @60Hz
17' CRT MITSUBISHI DV1772FD FLAT BEIGE
17' CRT MITSUBISHI DV1772FD FLAT BLACK

These are basically my only options I can see for CRT's anymore. Basically everything else offered is LCD's...

LCD's - since there are so many options.. anyone have any advice on good brand / model LCD's for gaming? Anything in particular that I should consider looking for in LCD;'s for gaming? (I admit, it's been awhile since I read up on LCD's.. back then a good LCD was $900+.. now most LCD's range between $300 and $600..).

Zaxan Razor · Jun 15, 2006, 02:10 AM // 02:10

If you're not bothered about Space, i would still stick with a Good quality CRT.

Good Quality CRT = £150
Same Quality LCD = £350

Lurid · Jun 15, 2006, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty @ EOCF

Reccomended 19" LCDs:

Acer AL1912b
Samsung 915N
Benq FP937S+
Benq FP937S
CMV CT-934D
Hyundai B90A
Hyundai L90D+

Reccomended 17" LCDs:

8-Cube 17"
Samsung 710n
BenQ FP71G+

Thats from a guide that a friend of mine wrote, giving credit to him in the quote tag, and here. I'm working on some CRT's that are reccomended, if I can find some i'll post them here.

lord_shar · Jun 15, 2006, 03:30 AM // 03:30

I would recommend LCD's over CRT's... they are bulky dinosaurs enroute to being phased out by the industry. You can find 19" wide aspect flat pannels for under $300 USD from NewEgg and other e-tailers:

http://www.newegg.com/ProductSort/Su...SubCategory=20

Gaming LCD's are already at 8ms and faster... they don't ghost like older, slower response flat pannels. They are much more forgiving on the eyes and even easier to transport if you attend LAN parties. LCD's have constant luminance, so they don't strobe your eyes into soreness like CRT's.

I made the switch from CRT to LCD a few years ago and have never looked back. Just make sure you go with a higher quality model like Samsung, Sony, Dell Ultrasharp, or other well established brand before pulling the trigger. I'd also recommend seeing the chosen model first hand at your local computer store before buying, to make absolutely sure that the image quality meets your standards. LCD's have assorted contrast ratios, response times, etc., but the numbers don't always sufficiently describe image quality.

Lurid · Jun 15, 2006, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

I'd also recommend seeing the chosen model first hand at your local computer store before buying, to make absolutely sure that the image quality meets your standards. LCD's have assorted contrast ratios, response times, etc., but the numbers don't always sufficiently describe image quality.

Agreed, if at all possible test before buying. I have a friend who bought a L90D+ and actually brought his PC to the store he bought it from, to test the monitor in various conditions...I <3 the L90D+

Kamatsu · Jun 15, 2006, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Zaxan Razor - Space isn't that big an issue. Playability, usabilty and affordability is what matters to me.

Lurid - thanx for that list. Looks like decent LCD's are way, way cheaper now than they used to be. Used to be they would cost $800+.. now the 17" BenQ you mentioned cost's ~$300.. vast difference to the past.

(ps, prices quoted are Australian))

Tyil Thunder Arrow · Jun 15, 2006, 02:54 PM // 14:54

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824179014

I have had this monitor for almost a year now. I have had no ghosting or anything. Zero dead pixels. Great price great color quality and performance. You can check out the reviews. Just a suggestion. I have been way more than pleased with it.

TalonTheCat · Jun 15, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824116373

Hands down - the wides screen is the best!

AlbinoChocobo · Jun 15, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Well, I've had a Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 930SB for a few years now. It's not too bulky for a 19" CRT, has nice colors, no geometry problems, and runs 1280*960 at 100Hz, or 1600*1200 at 85 Hz ; both look real good.

It goes for 'only' 350€ when you still find it (it's pretty high end), which I find is good value.

erick5876 · Jun 15, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamatsu

LCD's - since there are so many options.. anyone have any advice on good brand / model LCD's for gaming? Anything in particular that I should consider looking for in LCD;'s for gaming? (I admit, it's been awhile since I read up on LCD's.. back then a good LCD was $900+.. now most LCD's range between $300 and $600..).

I would reccomend either of these:

Samsung Syncmaster740B
Samsung SyncMaster 740N

Both are affordable 17" LCD's. I use the 740B at work, and GW looks great.

Far better than my home CRT (which I am about to replace with a 740B

)

*Edit: Also, the viewable area on a LCD is better than that of a CRT... so a 19" CRT is about = 17" LCD

*Edit:
This will explain more about LCD's and how they work:
http://www.d-silence.com/feature.php?id=249

TreeDude · Jun 15, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

You could always try to demagnitize your current CRT. That may fix the dark spot.

I have a Samsung Syncmaster 713BM 17" LCD. I love it. DVI, 8ms response, 700:1 contrast ratio, awesome colors, and it's Samsung they have a very low dead pixel rate. I prefer 17" to 19" for LCDs. They are the same price most places, but the pixel pitch is smaller on a 17", so it looks better IMO. Plus a smaller viewing area can actually give you an edge in games, as you don't have to move your eyes as much and can see more at once.

But NewEgg doesn't have the 713BM in stock anymore, but it was $270 last time I checked.

Zaxan Razor · Jun 15, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Hmm, you can still buy a CRT with the same image quality, and a longer lifespan than any of these LCD's for around half the price.

Nickelocene · Jun 15, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

I've been using this L90D+ LCD. Very good.

Hyundai ImageQuest L90D+ 19in Multiscanning LCD Monitor
https://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produ...uctCode=236003

lord_shar · Jun 15, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaxan Razor

Hmm, you can still buy a CRT with the same image quality, and a longer lifespan than any of these LCD's for around half the price.

The question is how much do you value your vision and comfort.

CRT's hammer your eyes a lot harder because their pixels immediately start to fade after being refreshed. This is why CRT's flicker. Even when vertical refresh rates go 85hz+, the flicker is still there whether or not you notice it. That flicker generates eye strain, which in turn causes pain and discomfort (this gets more pronouced as you get older).

LCD's dont' have the above problem because their pixels stay on constantly until instructed to shift to a different color, hence no flicker. You will notice ghosting on slower response LCD's (20+ ms), but faster gaming LCD's (<=16 ms) don't have this problem. Modern LCD's are much more forgiving on the eyes... I can stare at my LCD for 12+ hours without a break. My old CRT became intolerable after 5+ hours.

LCD's degrade faster if you push them beyond 60hz (LCD pixels can only switch a finite number of colors before going out), so if you use the DVI connector, you get longer LCD life spans and better picture quality since DVI is capped at 60hz. Modern LCD's will easily last 5+ years, but I'll replace mine with a newer, better looking model long before that happens.

Kamatsu · Jun 15, 2006, 11:21 PM // 23:21

erick5876 - thanx for the link, I'll check it out when I have some time

so 17" LCD has same viewing area as a 19" CRT? heh.. and considering decent 17" LCD's for me are around same price as 19" CRT's.. viewing area doesn't look to be a concern for me :P

TreeDude - that wouldn't solve the issue that my monitor is set to max brightness and is still "dark".. I need to run high gamma in games to even have a hope of see'ing anything.. LOL This monitor has been dying for like 1-2 years now.. LOL

Zaxan Razor - 1/2 the price? not over here.. you can get the CRT's cheaper, but half the price of a decent LCD? no way.

lord_shar - questiion. Isn't limiting monitors to 60hz going to limit/effect their performance? Or does that have little/no effect on fps and the like?

and as for the DVI connection issue.. since modern vid cards don't even come with analogue connection's anymore...whats the issue? :P (I'm using an analogue to DVI converter to plug my current monitor into my current vid card.. heh).

lord_shar · Jun 16, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamatsu

...<SNIP>...

lord_shar - questiion. Isn't limiting monitors to 60hz going to limit/effect their performance? Or does that have little/no effect on fps and the like?

and as for the DVI connection issue.. since modern vid cards don't even come with analogue connection's anymore...whats the issue? :P (I'm using an analogue to DVI converter to plug my current monitor into my current vid card.. heh).

You won't notice the difference on a modern LCD

DVI already limits vertical frequency to 60hz to protect LCD's from premature pixel wear. The pixel mechanics of an LCD also makes more than 60hz+ refresh rates unnecessary. High vertical refresh rates were needed to prevent flicker on CRT's, but LCD's don't need it to maintain flicker-free images.

Kamatsu · Jun 16, 2006, 12:52 AM // 00:52

lord_shar - lol you know, that would explain why this monitor has been stuck on 60hz all this time.. LOL I know the monitor is capable of higher.. always thought it was just stupid windows.. instead, it's just stupid me!

ahh, so the hz rate was all about flicker free? so on LCD's it wouldn't effect fps at all? cool! I'm learning (wor re-learing.. or whatever1 LOL) all the time.

Tartarus1040 · Jun 16, 2006, 01:51 AM // 01:51

That refresh rate thing is not entirely true. My 19 inch LCD has a default Refresh of 60, but it also has a setting for 75, not that it matters much. Kind of a crappy 18 ms LCD, but at the time I got it for the right price, I don't get ghosting during gaming, but sometimes watching a DVD... Later this year when buisness picks up, probably around the Fall, I'll pick up a much higher end LCD.

Edited: After thought; I have a 21 inch viewsonic CRT, very nice monitor, and it's viewable area is exactly the same as my LCD... My only gripe about my LCD is that I don't like 1280x1024 as native resolution, When I was running my CRT... 1600x1200 FTW... If I had the desk space I'd go dual monitor... But bleh.

erick5876 · Jun 16, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tartarus1040

If I had the desk space I'd go dual monitor... But bleh.

Throw away some action figures. Your tape dispenser can go in a drawer. Those pens aren't neccessary (niether is that open space on your desk where you write... I mean, c'mon, You have a keyboard.) . Who needs a stapler? Put the printer on the floor.

Or... Install a shelf above your desk. Whatever you do:

DUAL SCREEN FTW!!!!

lord_shar · Jun 16, 2006, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamatsu

lord_shar - lol you know, that would explain why this monitor has been stuck on 60hz all this time.. LOL I know the monitor is capable of higher.. always thought it was just stupid windows.. instead, it's just stupid me!

ahh, so the hz rate was all about flicker free? so on LCD's it wouldn't effect fps at all? cool! I'm learning (wor re-learing.. or whatever1 LOL) all the time.

If you get a gaming LCD, you won't have any performance issues. If you go low end, you'll definitely notice bad ghosting and poor picture quality. Just stay with the well known brands (Sony, Samsung, Dell, etc....), and try to see them in a computer store if possible. I also recommend an extended warranty to guard against dead pixels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tartarus1040

That refresh rate thing is not entirely true. My 19 inch LCD has a default Refresh of 60, but it also has a setting for 75, not that it matters much. Kind of a crappy 18 ms LCD, but at the time I got it for the right price, I don't get ghosting during gaming, but sometimes watching a DVD... Later this year when buisness picks up, probably around the Fall, I'll pick up a much higher end LCD.

Which part is not true? Sure you can run that LCD at 75hz by going analog, but all that does is lower your video signal quality and run pixel delta updates faster than necessary. Your eyes can't differentiate between individual image frames beyond 10fps, which is why big screen films are only recorded at this frame rate.

As mentioned previously, LCD pixels switch based on color delta changes. LCD pixels are very much like LED's, with a finite number of color switches before they stop working. They don't flash on/off like CRT's, so pushing them harder than 60fps only wears them out sooner, without any tangible performance gains.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tartarus1040

Edited: After thought; I have a 21 inch viewsonic CRT, very nice monitor, and it's viewable area is exactly the same as my LCD... My only gripe about my LCD is that I don't like 1280x1024 as native resolution, When I was running my CRT... 1600x1200 FTW... If I had the desk space I'd go dual monitor... But bleh.

My laptop has a 17" display running 1920x1200

Guildwars looks absolutely gorgeous on it. If you want something similar in a 24"+ range, the Dell Ultrasharps are one of the better choices.